Hello, and welcome to Stronger Voices Together, brought
to you by John Lyons Charity, a podcast dedicated
to exploring the diverse, vibrant world
of disability and inclusion.
The charity's funding strives to support all children
and young people through education, including those
with learning and access needs, championing their right
to access the same opportunities as anyone else.
I'm your host, Lucy Edwards, blind broadcaster,
content creator and disability activist,
and I'm delighted to be on this journey with you.
For those of you listening to this podcast
and not watching, I'm joined by my gorgeous guide dog,
Miss Molly, at my feet, my audio description is
that I've got a Forest Green dress on.
It's velour in feel and touch,
and I'm wearing a nude lipstick and coral eyeshadow.
In this episode, we're exploring the value of arts
and culture in both mainstream schools, special schools,
and out-of-school settings.
Particularly for visually impaired deaf neurodiverse
and disabled children and young people.
For too long arts education has been undervalued in
comparison to other academic subjects.
We are here to challenge this hierarchy, highlighting
how the arts fosters creativity, confidence,
and communication skills that are crucial
for the holistic development for young minds
to shed more light on the importance
of cultural capital for young people.
I'm delighted to welcome Ali King, chief Executive
of Turtle Key Arts. Hello.
Hello, Lucy. Thank you. And welcome. Very pleased to be
Here. Oh, thank you so
much. I always
love to start these podcasts.
By asking all of my guests for an audio description.
Mm-Hmm. Pronouns and also a bit more about what you do.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, I'm, I'm Ali King.
I'm a, uh, white woman in my mid fifties.
Um, I have, uh, long brown, straight hair.
Um, I wear brown tortoise shell glasses
and, uh, have quite a round face.
And today I'm wearing a very vivid orange top Ooh.
And with a dark brown necklace against it
and, uh, blue jeans and, uh, yeah.
My pronouns are she, her and a Turtle.
Key Arts is a registered charity.
We are based at the Lyric Theater in Hammersmith.
We're one of their partner organizations.
And Turtle Key Arts was really set up to, uh, provide access
and opportunities and inclusion for, uh, emerging artists
and young people to engage with the arts,
with a particular emphasis on working with young people
with disabilities and providing opportunities when they
might be most excluded.
And, um, some of our projects that we run are supported
by the John Lyon’s Charity.
And, um, and that's our key clubs that we do.
Oh, I love it. And I feel like you're, so,
you are best placed to talk about this subject.
And I think let's start then with your opinion.
Why are the arts so crucial?
Mm. Yeah. I mean, I find
that a really easy question to answer.
Yeah. Um, I think the arts are incredibly crucial.
They do so much for young people,
and especially young people with disabilities.
Um, I mean, the arts promote as we know, wellbeing.
Um, they promote when you're working together as a group,
a sense of team, a sense.
They help young people, um, feel confident, get young people
to sort of share, um, and participate and work together.
And I think also having fun
and you can't overlook that, you know,
you can't sort of dismiss that.
It's really important to be happy. Mm.
And for a young person when you're trying
to navigate the world that we live in,
and it's getting increasingly harder.
And certainly the pressures of social media.
I think, again, being able to go out and doing arts activity
and take part in something.
You're doing something live, you're joining in,
and that promotes feelings of happiness and wellbeing
and joy, which is also not to be overlooked.
What are the specific benefits of engaging in arts
and cultural activities for young people
with learning access needs?
Yeah. Um, I think there are many, uh, specific benefits.
I, I think, um, for young people with, um, uh,
special educational needs,
I think it can be a different way of learning.
I think sometimes the conventional courses and curriculum
and classes don't necessarily fit someone, um,
that has special educational needs or additional needs.
So I think, um, the arts can give that sort
of more creativity
so it can unlock learning in a different way.
So it can be through visual, or it can be through movement,
or it can be through participating through a shared project.
Um, it can be through listening, it can be
through many different ways.
And I think, you know, for someone who's, uh, you know,
not neurotypical, um, actually having the opportunity to, to
approach learning in a different way is really important
because, you know, it allow also then allows them
to realize, you know, just how clever they are.
Mm-Hmm. And just what potential they have
because, you know, one size doesn't fit all.
And I think that what the creative artist does is find
different ways of engaging with people.
And I think that's is crucial.
And I think it's really, really crucial in, um, you know,
an SEN environment.
And I think that's a real difference.
And I think that's where you can often see the biggest
impact and gain of the arts and culture.
Would you say then that's, would you say that the reason
that you get up and do what you do is
because you want young kids to have the opportunity?
Yeah, very much so. I think
that art can make a difference to people's lives.
I strongly believe that.
I also think that art can have an impact
and help make the world a better place to be in.
And, um, you know, I really hope
that in a way I think art allows people opportunities.
So that's why we do it.
And I think, you know, engaging people when they're young
and providing that opportunity is so important.
And we've always been real champions, um, for us as well,
is finding those people that don't necessarily get
that access and maybe will be excluded
for a variety of reasons.
And we're always very keen to kind of work with them
and provide opportunities for them.
Yeah. And you said culture changes lives.
So in terms of cultural capital then,
what does that mean to you?
Yeah, so for me, yeah, cultural capital is about,
you know, culture being at front
and centre of, of what happens in young people's lives.
And it should have as much importance in, in schools
and education as, um, you know, more mainstream subjects.
Yeah. I mean, you talk about being overlooked
as a young person, and I think it's definitely a,
a massive topic we should talk about, I think.
Do you feel like the arts
are completely overlooked over other subjects?
Increasingly, sadly, that's what seems to be happening
with the, uh, current kind of political landscape.
And I think that's absolutely tragic.
I mean, we go and work with a lots of schools
and they're really under resourced.
They're overstretched
and they're having to sort of,
where the arts is coming off the curriculums,
they're actually being forced to kind of close down,
like their arts programs or the teachers are leaving.
So you are seeing that provision being less and less
because it's not a priority.
So it's not coming from the top and being sort of put down.
And I think that's such a shame, and you're seeing less
and less people taking, you know, GCSE dance and drama
or even thinking about it at A-level.
But even if you don't go that far, which then
of course will have a knock on effect
to who's actually studying it to then who comes
and works in the industry.
And again, it's like, even if you don't want to go on
and study it, um, at a higher level, what it does for you
as a young person, just that whole sort of, you know, even
with terms of being able to interact
and communicate with people or, or, or talk
or just feel that confidence, it, it does so much,
but it's definitely being overlooked and I think sidelined
and marginalized in favour of more traditional subjects.
And I think that's about kind of a box ticking exercise.
And I think it's about having good stats.
And what they're not doing is they're not getting what the,
the benefit of the arts because you can't apply numbers
to it or you can't kind of quantify that benefit
because it's, it, it, it's out there, it's tangible.
You see it and you see that improvement
with the young people if you engage and work with them.
But if you're coming in to fill out a, a, a sheet
or an appraisal, you're not necessarily
gonna get that information.
Do you think then arts
and cultural organizations are kind of trying to fill
that gap outside of the school environment?
Yeah, very much so.
I think it's being, um, pushed onto the arts
and, uh, organizations and, um, and, and you know,
and we are happy to sort of do that, but it really is,
and I think, and the schools, you know, obviously are,
are desperate because they see the benefit.
Um, and yeah, I think it's definitely being pushed onto arts
organizations to provide,
but then what's not happening is that funding
and resources from local councils
and government isn't there.
So then you are relying on kind of other organizations,
trusts and foundations to see that benefit
and to step in and fund.
So that's where it's also breaking
down in that area as well.
Yeah, I am definitely seeing that.
And I think definitely even from when I was at school
10 years back, you know,
I'm seeing the funding drop even further,
even Braille lessons I used to be able to have in term time.
And now, you know, there's, there's not as much funding.
So I can definitely relate to that.
In terms of your organization then,
because you, you do deal with a lot of your young people,
um, with different access needs, where do you think that
cultural organizations can, can help younger people?
Yeah. Um, that's a really good question.
I, uh, I think first of all,
it's identifying what they want.
I think that's really key.
So I think it's actually listening to the young people
and the schools at,
or the community centres, whoever you are engaging with
to sort of access these young people.
Finding out, you know, kind of where the lack
of provision is and what they need.
We do go into schools, but we also try
and bring the young people out to the organizations
where we work because that's also really important.
'cause that also gives them a sense of independence
and kind of a bit of sort of, you know,
ownership over it and liberation.
It's not happening in their classroom, in their term time.
Yeah. Which can also give them a little bit of,
um, freedom I think.
So maybe if they've got a preconceived judgment about
themselves or you know, they might be considered to be,
you know, the naughty one, again, it's starting
with a clean sheet, so we often try
and get the young people out and working with us.
So I think it's about also lobbying to, you know, attend
and, and engage with what's happening culturally in your
community and would make a big difference.
And for other funders as well, there aren't many funders
that fund arts and increasingly they're having pressures.
And, um, so I think it's also providing more opportunities
for those arts organizations to access those and,
and make those, um, projects happen.
So yes, there is a lot to be done, um, to, to make the case
for cultural capital.
And there are really good organizations
and people fighting for that.
And I just hope that there's many more ways
that we can all join that fight.
Mm-Hmm, definitely. Yeah.
And what have you found to be the specific challenges trying
to engage with special schools? Yeah.
In arts projects, yeah.
We're finding them really under-resourced. Right.
You know, I mean, they're being squeezed.
They're having their budgets cut.
Um, you know, they're, they're struggling
to obviously provide
and cater for the young people that are needing them.
And so, and where they're having
to follow a certain curriculum, we are seeing arts
and culture disappearing.
I mean, there's one special school we go and work with,
and they've literally got an empty art room.
And we were the, we went in and used it
and we did a project, um,
an incredible project actually again, um, supported,
um, by John Lyon.
But in some of the SEN schools we went to,
we were the dance provision, we were the arts provision,
we were providing the theatre
because they just didn't have the staff
or the time in the timetable
or the resources to run that department anymore.
And so as they'd been forced to cut, they'd had to cut that.
And as they'd come off the curriculum,
the young people were not getting it
because the school couldn't provide it
because it wasn't a priority
that was coming from the top down.
Wow. So it's not the school's fault
and it's not their desire not to provide it.
And that's the reality of what we were finding. Wow.
So you find that so many art rooms are just empty.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there have been somewhere literally
they don't have the teacher anymore to actually do,
do run the art classes.
Is that most special schools you go to?
Um, not most. It is just some, it might be, it depends
what we're sort of going in with,
but sometimes it can be, you know, there,
there will be a teacher that will be part of their remit
to do dance, but obviously there might
only get to it once a term.
So, or you know, whereas we are able to go in
and do that over a number of weeks.
And I think especially, you know, yes,
you've got issues in mainstream schools,
but I think especially when you are engaging
with young people with special educational needs, there is
so much incredible potential.
Yeah. And joy in those young people.
And it, and often it's just also for the organizations
to have confidence and it's just about planning
and it's just about adapting.
And, and, and anything is possible.
Anything is possible. Yeah. Anything is possible. Yeah.
It is just about adaptation.
It is about thinking outside the box.
Um, and young people with disabilities, some
of the most resilient kids, you’ll ever meet.
They really, really are.
And what I love as well is that they're all, you know,
they will be so honest and, and, and,
and we, you know, we, we create that very safe space
and we want people to tell us,
because you can never presume to know
what someone's thinking or feeling.
And if you don't share that disability,
you're not necessarily gonna know,
but you can certainly, um, support.
Yeah, definitely. What's the difference when you work
with mainstream schools versus special schools?
Is there a different provision for you?
Yes. I think when we go into an SEN school
and you're working with a, you know, a a whole group,
obviously the school is more geared around their needs.
There's more understanding
and, um, you know, all of our workshop leaders are, are,
are trained and, and supported.
Um, and it gives us really the ability
to create something very bespoke for those young people
and allows, I think, over the course of those sort
of sessions to really, you know, work with them very closely
and really unlock their potential rather than trying to,
you know, support them
and accommodate them in a mainstream environment,
which we can do and we can do very well.
But I sometimes think the young person misses out.
And I think actually when you're in the SEN environment, a,
the teachers have more knowledge and support
and understanding and, uh, and,
and the school is geared up for that.
So then as you are going in
as an arts organization providing that provision,
you are already starting from a, at the same place
as a shared language
and you're working together to deliver that.
Whereas I think when you go into a mainstream school,
sometimes it can be much harder for the teacher
'cause they're facing a much larger class
and they've got so many challenges
and you are almost a welcome relief rather than actually
feeling like a partnership.
So I think, you know, you create probably more meaningful
and deeper relationships when you work with the SEN schools.
It's just making it equal and right for everyone.
I think that's a testament to your organization though.
'cause I think people can be scared
and kind of beat around the bush
when it comes to disability.
I know that, you know, people worry about kind
of access needs for myself when I go into different rooms.
Yes. And it's just, it, you know, as the young person
that kind of happens on a disability,
it like happened to me.
You are often, you know, told by older adults
and things like, oh, what do you need?
And sometimes it's like, well, just to be a kid, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. I am blind or I do have a disability,
but let's just let my hair down. Yeah.
Now you're absolutely right. Yeah. And I think that's it.
And I think for a lot of people it's nothing more than a
little bit of fear and, and a worry about doing
and saying the wrong thing.
And, um, we're never afraid
to get stuck in at Turtle Key Arts.
And I think, um, you know,
and as we said earlier, the young people incredibly robust
and very good at telling you, but I think also allows them
the space to do that.
And it's affording equal respect, you know,
and I think that's so important and it, and it,
and, uh, yeah, for us,
that just seems the right way to be. Mm-Hmm.
I agree. And I think what then needs to be done
to close the cultural capital gap for those
with learning and access needs? Yeah,
I think it's, I mean unfortunately,
obviously you are always looking at a smaller percentage,
so those sort of smaller percentage
of young people are gonna get ignored
and kind of get, you know,
washed away in the kind of bigger stats.
And I think it's actually, again, recognizing the importance
of, of, of those schools and what they need.
And I think, I dunno how we kind of bang that drum,
but it's like not forgetting that percentage of young
disabled people that need that additional support
and need to access learning in a different way.
Mm-Hmm. And I suppose more joined up thinking,
I suppose everyone tends to work very kind
of in their own little sort of microenvironment.
And I suppose it's having that more connectivity
amongst organizations itself and also more partnerships,
because that's a really key way.
And we believe wholeheartedly in partnerships, you know,
whether it's with other organizations, whether it's
with schools, whether it's with funders,
or, you know, a whole combination of that
because, you know, if you work in partnership,
that also gives you a stronger voice
and it gives you more, um, kind of power and gravitas
and it gives you momentum to sort of fight the case.
Ali, thank you. No, thank you Lucy. Very much.
Stay tuned for part two after this short testimonial.
My name is JK, I am a multidisciplinary artist.
I am a cartoonist digital designer, workshop facilitator
and businessman.
And I'm from West London.
I grew up in a creative house
and I started my artist career during the pandemic
and I went on to draw Mr.
Men characters. And then along the way I developed my own
cartoon characters called the Jadoodles,
they emphasize on showing facial expressions, which I love.
So my residency began in 2022.
The Cartoon Museum asked me
to do free responses at the museum.
And since the responses were so good,
the museum have decided to buy all of my free responses
and exhibited at the museum.
So being a professional cartoonist is
really good and unique.
I've worked with some big galleries such
as the Serpentine Youth Collective,
the Westminster City Lions,
and especially The Cartoon museum.
And I also put on some wellbeing workshops
such as wellbeing events.
And I also want to take my artist journey to
around the world, such as New York, Brighton,
and other places around the world.
The most important people
who support me on the way was Paul Morrow at my old school,
the Serpentine Youth Collective, the Westminster City Lions,
and the best PA, which is my sister.
Everyone can do art, even if you are born differently,
you can do what you like.
The reason why I love art is
because there's no right or wrong answer.
To find out more information about the JK Cartoon Studios,
you can follow us at Instagram at JK_Cartoon_Studios.
And, you can find us at
www.JKCartoonStudios.com if you want to buy some
prints and some socks.
If you want to see of my animation in the future,
it will be on Netflix, Disney Plus or Amazon Prime.
So we have identified that there is a definite need
for cultural capital, the knowledge about things that,
that are outside of our daily lives,
especially when it comes to supporting children
and young people with access and learning needs.
I suppose the question is now
what can we do together to implement change?
How can schools and arts organizations work together
to ensure no young person is left behind
and who really is accountable here?
We are now joined by Paul Morrow, lead practitioner
of the Creative Arts at Westminster Special Schools.
Paul, thank you for joining me. Delighted to be here.
So Paul, I always like to start off if you're comfy
with a quick audio description of yourself, your pronouns,
and a bit more about what you do. Okay.
Um, uh, my pronouns are he and him. Um, I'm ginger haired.
I have a ginger beard. Um,
Love it.
I've got a, a very kind of acidy yellow jumper
and brown cord.
I am the lead practitioner in the creative arts at
Westminster Special Schools, which, uh,
college Park School is an autistic specific provision.
And QE two School within Westminster Special Schools is a
school that supports young people with profound
and multiple learning difficulties, severe learning difficulties
and complex autism.
And I'm also the, um,
I coordinate the West London Inclusive Arts Festival,
which is, uh, kindly supported by John Lyon's
and is made up of seven schools,
seven special needs schools,
and, uh, works with the Royal Albert Hall, the Royal Academy
of Art, Action Space and Grey Eye Theatre.
So we, we come together, uh, in the festival where, uh,
and we're informed by co-production.
So we are hoping to develop an environment, a kind
of like ecosystem where the young people within the schools,
the seven schools, if if they would like to become artists
or performers in the future, we are significantly
increases the increasing the chances of those, uh,
those young people being able to do that.
We also have a family strand, so we work
with families in the seven schools,
but then we also work with our cultural partners in
developing a program of events
to support them learning more about the cultural offer
that's available to them.
Uh, yeah, it's a great vehicle for in increasing inclusion
and inclusive practices.
And after watching that testimonial, which was amazing,
by the way, how do you support Jadore?
Oh, uh, I encountered Jadore some years ago
when I was teaching him art.
And his interest in cartooning was very obvious.
Um, and his joy in cartooning
and I, I'd become aware of the Cartoon Museum from working
with John Lyon’s, and it was by reaching out to them
that you could say the rest was history, really.
What are the challenges then to delivering a rich
and varied cultural curriculum in school?
Uh, I suppose some of, one of the biggest tensions around
that, and one of the biggest threats to
that is, is financial.
You know, um, I know a number of colleagues in schools, uh,
where the schools are under immense financial pressure,
where budgets are just allowing them to buy, uh,
the basic provisions.
So in terms of art, that would just be paper pens
and pencils and nothing beyond that.
So if you are looking at equipping those young people
with cultural capital, that means being able to be able
to facilitate those kind of experiences
with arts organizations or artists.
And if you haven't got the money to do
that, you are unable to.
You are, it really limits
how you can equip those young people with cultural capital.
Is there a, is there a curriculum agenda moving
away from the arts?
So, you know, young people aren't getting
as many opportunities as that,
that we, like we're talking about. Well,
Yes, there is.
Um, it's been structurally undermined when it was removed
from the English Baccalaureate.
So when the art, all the creative arts subjects were removed
from, uh, well, they weren't removed from it,
they weren't actually included in it in the first instance.
Wow. So that kind of messaging is gonna message to schools
that they don't have value,
that there isn't value in the arts.
Um, it's kind of slightly contradicted then by the, the idea
of the broad and balanced curriculum,
which is a statutory right for every school to be able to,
to deliver abroad and balanced curriculum.
So it's mixed messaging.
Um, but it is also the subjects
or the subjects that then can, um,
they'll lose time, they'll lose money.
There is a dominance, I know in primary schools,
particularly around SATs, when they've got SATs coming up
that all the other subjects kind of fall away.
Um, and you basically,
every subject is experienced through the arts anyway.
I mean, it's the, I mean, it's a part of our area that we,
we sit on chairs that have been designed.
We wear clothes that are designed by fashion designers.
We all listen to music. We've got wallpaper, paint,
decoration on the walls around us.
Arts and culture is imbued in everything. Everywhere. Yeah.
Everywhere. And it also, you know, English, maths
and science are all part of that as well.
Cultural moments define
how we see ourselves, you know, it,
It creates, uh, community cohesion.
Mm-Hmm. It is, it's how we all, it's the, it's the glue
that kind of brings us all together,
particularly in those great kind of moments, as you say,
individually, but also nationally. Mm.
Would you say Ofsted plays a role in
how the arts prioritized?
Well, that's, that's really interesting actually,
because on the Ofsted framework, uh,
when schools are being, uh, inspected, they have to explore,
um, how they are the school that they're inspecting,
how they're equipping the young
people with cultural capital.
So that's part of the Ofsted framework.
So schools get measured by that.
So it's the schools that are being inspected have
to articulate how they're doing that,
how effectively they're doing that.
And 'cause cultural ca capital in itself is a, um,
quite a broad reference.
So they then have to give that kind of specificity.
They have to say, within this school we do A, B, C, and D
and that is equipping our young people with cultural capital
and with cultural capital being quite, uh, in terms
of what it can refer to, there is some what you,
you could describe some tensions,
but it's also some opportunities is
because it hasn't been explicitly defined.
Working in the school that I work in,
we make a conscious effort to use artists
that also describe them, define themselves as deaf, disabled
and neurodivergent within our curriculum.
So we are kind of introducing them to a, an inclusive canon,
but we're also introducing those kind of conversations
around disability as well.
Hmm. And what is the difference
between the arts curriculum in a mainstream school to
that of a special school?
I would say one of the most distinctive,
or what could be perceived as one
of the most distinctive differences is that when we work,
when we work with cultural partners,
we enter into co-production.
So because to to work specifically in our setting, they need
to understand the needs of the young people,
the needs of the school setting.
We'd like to work
with cultural partners over a longer period of time.
'cause it increases the impact in our
school for our young people.
It also supports the cultural institution in understanding
more about inclusion and inclusive practices.
So I would say possibly
that would be the biggest difference, is that we have
that time where we work together to plan
and co co-produce the project, uh, project
and deliver the project.
Whereas maybe in a mainstream setting, um, if you went
to a cultural organization,
it might be much more off the peg kind of offer.
Mm-Hmm. And
what then are the consequences on the young people?
For both, I'd say
I, I think if you can get co-production, right,
you can include the young person,
you can include the school community,
and you can also include the family,
which means if you can include, include all those kind
of key people into the mix,
you are building very resilient cultural capital.
'cause cultural capital is something that exists in the home
as well as it does in school.
So if you can bolster that in the home
and you can include the family within the conversation
and the celebration of those kind of things,
it also means within a special needs setting,
you can sometimes challenge parental perceptions
of their own children and what they can actually achieve.
I think, um, in terms of mainstream, I think
it could be, there is a huge number of young people, people
who have additional needs who are also
in mainstream settings.
Um, sometimes they have amazing experiences in mainstreams
where the schools are very well equipped
to support their needs.
Unfortunately, sometimes that's not the case.
So whereas, um, you could have what might be described
as a super served school, a school
that's got a very confident way of working
with cultural partners
and has that then has an impact on the young people.
You could be in a mainstream setting
where that doesn't exist.
And you have children
that have less robust cultural capital.
They, they see less people
who look like them or speak like them.
Uh, so it, it's,
I think those are probably the biggest differences.
I think that is the case, though.
Like, it, if you see less people that look like you,
you don't feel like you can achieve
and you can kind of, I don't know, you need role models.
Everyone needs a role model, right?
Yep. You need to be able, you, there's a, I think you need
to be, to be able to see it
or experience it to be able to see that you could do that
or you could think that you could do that.
Um, and I think where within cultural capital
that is possibly one of the biggest opportunities there is
that there is the possibility
of developing an inclusive canon.
One that is inclusive of everyone
and reflective of all people because the arts
and culture is so diverse.
Mm. What is an inclusive cannon then?
How do you use that term?
So, for instance, uh, there's an artist called Nnena Kalu,
who is a neuro divergent artist.
She's, uh, she's supported by action space who,
who support learning disabled artists.
She's now in the collection at the Tate.
So being able to use that artist within an art lesson
where you've got young neurodivergent young people
where you are introducing an artist who is first
and foremost identifies as an artist,
but also, um, has autism, you are, they're able
to see that they, they themselves can be artists.
Hey, yeah, I can do that. Yeah, definitely.
I think that's so important.
I mean, I remember not having any role models growing up
and you just think, oh, well I'm so scared
to have a disability now.
It's like, if you don't feel like you can amount
to anything, then where is kind of like the drive to kind
of push forward and the need to fail
and the the want to succeed, you know?
Yeah. Um, it's just so interesting.
Do you see that in your students now
that they have more drive if they've been
taught in that way?
Oh yeah, completely. Um,
I think our young people actually, we,
we've got a project at the moment
where they're actually describing themselves as artists.
Oh, brilliant. Um, a a group of, uh, primary,
upper primary students
and working with those guys in the project
where they will working with artists,
but the artists were seeing the young people as artists
and how then that, young neurodivergent young people
and the opportunity to see how, what they engaged in
and the kind of creativity of being able to see the world
through a different lens, um, opened up all these kind
of creative opportunities.
And I, I, I would also suggest, well, I know
for a fact it shifted the artists who were in the room
as the facilitators, as much
as it shifted the young people in the room
who were then starting to perceive themselves as artists.
So it's not just benefit here,
there's benefit across the space.
Mm-Hmm.
And how can schools and organizations hold parents
and communities and local authorities to account
so it can become a collaborative solution?
I think, um, it unfortunately, lots of kind
of networks have fallen away because of austerity,
because of those kind of financial, I think being able
to bring people together in the room,
so there's much more opportunity to learn about each other,
to understand who we, who those individual groups are,
how we can more, we can work collectively together.
Um, particularly around things like co-production means
that a holding people account actually becomes
structural within that.
Because if you are developing things together,
you are all invested in it.
You all want it to succeed. It needs to be more strategic.
I think there needs to be a joined up conversations
between local education authorities
and within the local community to understand
what cultural assets exist in those areas,
and then for those cultural assets to be made available
to all schools, but that, that's policy that needs
to be strategic and everyone needs
to be a part of those networks. Yeah.
And you talk about cultural assets.
What resources are available for schools at the minute,
or arts organizations that want to make more out
of their joint projects and partnerships?
I think one of the things that when we work with, um,
cultural partners that is really useful for us is
that we've used some of the criteria from the arts award
that enables us to, um, we can use it under it in terms
of assessment material,
but it also then supports our cultural partner in having an
understanding of how they can support us in
evidencing that kind of assessment.
It takes some of the,
the labor away from the school in a sense.
I mean, you say that there's a lot of organizations
that are falling away, like are there, you say you,
you are tapping into some resources,
but do you think there could be a bigger hub?
Oh yeah, definitely. I think, um, being able
to bring people, people into the room together,
they can have those conversations.
Just, I think better understanding of each other,
better understanding of how you can work better together.
But I do, I really do believe that it needs
to be policy driven and structural.
If they had someone in school,
if they had a cultural education plan,
and then someone in each school had to be the, was the,
the person who was responsible for attending meetings,
it would change the kind of geography in those areas
of joining up the cultural provision
between schools and cultural assets.
And one thing that fell out
of the festival was the Cultural Inclusion Manifesto.
The Cultural Inclusion Manifesto is a
set of guiding principles.
Um, we, so if you read the manifesto
and you agree with those principles, it's kind
of a movement of people working.
It's a collective understanding that if we want
to increase inclusion across the space, we have
to work together, we have to work collectively.
Um, it's also understanding that we do need
to lo uh, lobby politicians.
So when we've had our conferences,
we've always encouraged politicians to come down to open it
and try to influence policy
and practice to increase inclusion across the space.
Mm-Hmm.
Oh, Paul, thank you so much for your insights.
It's been so great to chat to you. Thank you.
Thank you both to Ali King
and Paul Morrow for their generous
and insightful comments on the importance
of cultural capital, particularly for young people
with learning and access needs.
I invite not only arts organizations and schools,
but individuals also to take a meaningful step by signing up
to the Cultural Inclusion Manifesto.
I encourage you to stay engaged
with us on this ongoing exploration of inclusion.
In the episodes to come,
we'll delve deeper into various areas of inclusion,
shedding light on critical topics such
as career opportunities for people with learning
and access needs, inclusive language
and other subjects, inviting insightful discussions
with experts and advocates.
If you have experience, insights,
or opinions on what you've learned during these episodes,
then please follow John Lyon's Charity on Instagram, X
and LinkedIn, and let us know what you think.
Together, let's continue this journey towards a more
inclusive world, where everyone, regardless
of their abilities, feels seen, heard, and valued.
Thanks for tuning in.
Hi, my name's Anna Hoddinott,
and I'm the Senior Grants Manager at John Lyon’s Charity.
I'm a white female and my pronouns are she her.
I'm wearing a bright print top and black trousers,
and I have blonde shoulder length hair.
I would like to thank our guests today, Ali
and Paul, for coming to talk
to us about the importance of cultural capital.
I would also like to thank Jadore Kid, the cartoon artist
who has shared his experiences with us on his testimony.
We at John Lyon’s Charity are committed to the importance
of arts and culture to all children and young people.
This is particularly important for young people
with learning and access needs.
In our Perspective series,
we have examined ways in which special schools can better
partner with arts
and cultural organizations
to create meaningful opportunities for young people
with learning and access needs.
We feel that these opportunities for young people should be
of the highest quality, and that can only happen
through meaningful partnership.
Working. To find out more about our Perspective series
and the funding opportunities available,
please see our website, www.jlc.London.